Aye, I found that myself recently. When I have time I'll get around to reinstalling everything and patching it. Is it a patch over the game or one of those crappy ones that translates on the side?

Firstly....what the hell is atheist scientist?

Quote: first,you cant say God made them that way without having doubts...if a child has a mental problem,it involves the genes,and the process of mitosis,ect.Even so,if God created gays,then its just as effective as creating a human who steals,swears,and lies.We are all sinners,but there is a way out.as for animals being homosexual,i've never personally seen one,but it could be a message to mankind,and for mankind to watch these animals and observe how no matter how there animals act,they will never produce life.they will both die out,with no family made by themselves,and changing the population possibly.like humans,you may feel like your in love with the same gender,but you must undertand that its just like a disorder,making your brain fall in love with the same gender,other than the opposite.

Not only is that the biggest load of crap I've ever read in regards to homosexuals, but in one part he actually supports natural selection, almost leads into evolution......I doubt that was his intention so he's obviously just typing out his rear.

So although I don't think there's a god, I do think there must be 'something else', whether that be a superhuman, an alien race or just a group of humans with advanced technology who haven't told anyone. There have been plenty of documented impossibilities and everyones experienced some sort themselves, so what do people think?

One specific example is one day years ago I was throwing a football with my friend who lives about 50 meters away on his front lawn. At one point a big red 4wd came driving up the road with sounds and all and then disappeared behind a tree. When I saw that happen I instantly turned to my friend who was giving me the exact same "what the" look. Things to note are that the car could not physically hide behind the tree in any way, it drove out of site on one half of the tree and didn't appear on the other half. We looked around and at all angles and it was definitely impossible that it did what it did.

Most things can be explained rationally but I'm yet to find a decent one where two people have the exact same delusion with sight and sound and no previous influences.

Another interesting one was with a different friend, this one I hadn't seen for about a month before this incident. He came in and we talked for a bit. (I'll talk in bold, him in italics) I had this really strange dream last night yeah I did too mine was about a magpie oh yeah, a talking one and it's name was phoebe...right? and it was sitting on the rocky ledge outside (person X)s house........pause where we both stared at each other followed by various explicits.

Again I fail to find what could have sparked two friends who haven't seen each other in a month with no influences to be able to have the same dream with those specifics. We tried to find any reason why we dreamt those specific details and there was nothing.

Again the question was, have you had such an experience and how do you explain to yourself things like that?

The funeral would be a celebration of life without the thanks to god and hymns and such. I think you'd really need to be a heavy atheist to care how the funeral proceeds outside of friend/relative speeches. Funerals are traditionally set up this way, and god will be mentioned somewhere most times anyway regardless of what the deceased may think.

I've always thought of burial as a waste of space, look at the size of some cemetaries! I also find it a rather irksome way to go (sitting in the ground while rotting in a box), and why would you say gods taken you to a better place when your rotting body remains on the earth. I think cremation is the way to go, then you don't need to worry about what to write on a tomb.

To be honest I'm not exactly sure what the course was now, I think it was a Bachelor Of Arts (not fine arts, just the English and social sciencey one). There are a few reasons I don't want to do it, money and transport are a slight issue but I also feel that even if I did go through to the end with it I wouldn't need/use most the things learnt in it with the things I want to do, it would only look pretty on a resume. I also didn't realise that if course options were to the same uni, you get into your first choice and they don't even consider if you could have done the other ones. I put arts first cause I thought it was the best bridge......to late to consider those things now. Next to that I'm already doing an English teaching course by correspondence and want to go overseas with that some time in the future.

An important thing to realise with the HSC and trials is where your school stands. I hate to be judgemental but there's a huge difference between 55% in an outback public school verses a 55% in a Sydney private school. I went to a half decent private school (not in Sydney) and my trial scores were much less than what my HSC one's where. You'll be fine so long as you put a bit of study in.....at the same time I urge you not to overdo it

Tourists can be many things but where I live, half the businesses live off the tourists when they come. Half of Australia is probably in the same situation.

I do visit here, I do. I just really can't think of anything interesting to write. There are plenty of things happening in the country but I'm not greatly into sports these days and I'm not even sure what's happening with this election which I hear is this month.

Good luck with the HSC those who are about to face it. I didn't do so grand last year but I did get the uni course I signed up for (one that was deferred anyway). I don't think I'm going to accept the course anyway, I did get a letter saying the positions still open for me. If your doing extension English then your almost guaranteed a decent UAI (imo).....I dropped the extension part (two extensions actually) because of a dodgy teacher who drove me insane. You'll be fine, it's easier than people make it out to be.

btw I've also heard some English tourists saying how they'll pop up to Darwin for the weekend.

Well yes, we all know it should be but that isn't the point Otherwise it would have already happened.

With advances in technology the ability for science to discover more about the world around will increase accordingly, if not exponentially. The ability for Christianity to explain more of itself essentially lies within interpretation of the bible.....there's not really any technological advance that will aid its development. Science teaches us something new everyday

Sorry to break the flow but many of you have probably seen http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/09/dover_trial_intelligent_design.php by now. If not, as always, give it a look. Anyways two very specific things occurred to me while watching that. Firstly it seems that the whole idea of irreducible complexity is the fact that they already have a direction. In that example they said something along the lines of you cannot create a moth by chance. They've completely ignored the fact that a moth was created by chance and seem to be following the idea that chance is the process used to create a moth. Chance could have just as easily led to a moth being 5 times larger than an elephant, if we never knew anything different would we argue it. There seems to be the notion that nature and random chance has wanted to create these specific things.

Secondly I found it humorous that even if creationism were correct, it only points to an intelligent designer. The theory could easily and correctly be used to prove the existence of aliens right? An intellectually superior and controlling race of beings who have intelligently created humans and our world, then planted the idea of god in our heads to cover up their own existence. It just as plausible as god.

merged: 09-14-2007 ~ 06:56pm
After watching the second half of those videos they also state what I said in the first part with the example of dealing the cards

P.S. So ah....what was the difference between creationism and intelligent design. Intelligent design doesn't specifically say god so it become science?

Aye, but it would at least slow the buggers down and make life a little bit harder for them. With email reply verification they would probably find that it's actually easier to participate around the joint than to sneak through loopholes.

Although the survey is quite gratifying, it really shouldn't be counted as any form of evidence. As many have said you shouldn't think for a moment human qualities are religiously grouped, that being said I've met plenty of 'religious' people who would go to hell by any persons standards.

Completely agreeing with marfish that it's not a question of 'if' but rather 'when'. To relate the actual project to Darwinian evolution is quite wrong. What that comment suggested (at least in my mind) is that they're hopeful they'll be able to create an artificial life-form, however they don't expect it to live long at first.
That comment would have been referring to them placing their hopes (possibly quite highly) that some form of evolution will allow the cell to overcome any of the scientists compositional flaws and stay alive a bit longer.

Persocom01, asking that the creation of life wont take too long? By scientific explanation it took a 'very long time' (don't ask me how long it was, I forget now ) for the first forms of life to be created and by religious reasoning.....we're not god. They should be able to create artificial life within 10 years, however being able to create an artificial life form with either an extended lifespan + ability to reproduce or a specified purpose will probably take much longer than that. In terms of it being buried if it does fail?...there's really not much point reporting a failure and I'm sure that's the last thing anyone wants to do after dedicating 10 years of their life to something (starts thinking about people who have dedicated a lifetime to achieving an afterlife that may not exist...)

Although tracking and big brotherism is all very good in theory (I agree with the theory), it's just not practicable. In any country there is a huge area to monitor, a huge number of people to force onto the system and a comparatively large number of people who need to be trusted with the huge responsibility of watching someones life. Worse than that, most first worlders have the conception that everyone has a right to freedom and they would not allow any 'democratic' government to put such policies in place.

Although everyone 'should' have a right to freedom, the world isn't that nice a place, like many people in it. I've always felt freedom is a privilege and if people are going to violate their responsibilities they should lose their privileges (which is true in criminal law).

I also find it funny how the conversation moved from god to astronomy to politics.

I was almost forgiving of the stupidity throughout until it hit the end with that shirt....... What the hell is wrong with animals! I'd rather be adopted into a gay community than their radical crap.

I also refuse the possibility of travelling back in time, if it were possible one would assume we would have found it somewhere in the future and already visited ourselves in the now, that is unless the good old rapture takes us down before we got the chance to discover it.

I was reading through a news site about one of the new thriving religious groups in Australia, 'Hillsong'. I don't know a great deal about it myself however it's one of those really flashy new age ideas where worship is more of a dance party and everyone should empty their wallets. Anyways I ran across this quote by a very disgruntled ex-member of the group who was kicked out after asking questions.

Quote: "It's a corporate organisation being run by corporately trained people to achieve economic outcomes," Levin says. "Economic outcomes are the new measure of spiritual success and sign of blessing. The fact that Brian Houston is driving a Harley is a sign that God is looking upon him favourably.

Specicially the part where 'economic outcomes are the new measure of spiritual success and sign of blessing.' Churches are non-profitable organisations and I don't think they have any requirements to make their accounts known to the public, so no one really knows how much money goes in compared to how much is distributed for the greater good.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, that's why I added "or 'detectable' matter". What I actually meant is that it may be matter, but it isn't matter as we currently define it.

Dark matter is still under heavy investigation but my understanding was that it didn't actually have anything to do with darkness itself, that is there is plenty of dark matter in areas of light, the only difference is it passes straight through. i.e. Dark matter is just the theoretical name for the absence of matter (or 'detectable' matter). That's my take on it but I make absolutely no claim on any truth to that .

I would agree that cold is the absence of heat and dark is the absence of light, however good, bad, moral, immoral etc are all human concepts. They are based entirely upon opinion and have no measurable ability so it's really a very stupid thing to say. You can't place something of nature next to a pronoun.

The christian person also states there 'evil being the absence of good'. Again there's a neutrality in the middle separating the two. You can do something good or you can do nothing at all.....or you can go out of your way to do something evil. The christian is putting someone who's in a neutral position doing nothing on the same level as someone who goes out of their way to destroy lives, ignoring the fact the scale actually works both ways.

In conclusion not only did that jolly good christian prove the professor doesn't have a brain, but also that he himself didn't and probably that 99% of people don't have a brain, what a jolly clever fella he is (and what a moron to think that justifies god).

Again adding I love the page. I decided to pose what one would think is a finishing post in the all atheists thread. It basically questions his merits in his ability to interpret his religion. After reading the last part you'll understand but I think it's a fairly solid situation. If he answers 'no' he's admitting he was wrong and that he's not the only person who can interpret a religion. If he says 'yes' then he's obviously so bigoted that he thinks a 16 year old knows more about religion than someone who's been studying it all their life and rewarded for it.

Now we'll probably once again witness the divine ability of religious people to avoid answering a question (or answer a different question we haven't actually asked).

As for kingray100, I don't despise him. I'm just very confused how someone can be so narrow minded. I want to see him just once accept the possibility what someone else thinks might be right.

I like the colour scheme, it's light and happy.

It doesn't matter what you said about him in that post; It was direct and fairly concrete, therefore he's simply going to ignore it's existance. Of course it's common sense he can't be hurt by something he denies the existence of (deja vu?). Even if religion&science forum is becoming more heated lately, I don't think any mod would want to touch that forum with a ten foot pole (however it makes me cry that he's bumped every second religious thread ever made).

I had an odd thought earlier (although forgive me as I've had a few drinks) and compared god to Hitler. Hitler had dreams of creating a perfect race and had millions of jews put to death......god had dreams of creating a perfect race and had almost the entirety of the human race put to death (or drowned).......maybe I should stop thinking for the night.

Sorry, haven't seen 'Inherit The Wind' so can't comment there. I have a very religious friend at work, every now and then we'll talk about our beliefs to each other and discuss the controversies, we respect each others views and have never had a fight over them. I'm open-minded, he's open-minded.....simple?

Quote by DarkRoseofHellAnd littlejonny100, moderator's opinion matter, just if they abuse their standpoint then their opinion doesn't matter. xP Oh yeah, I don't think anyone has said it yet...

Thanks for the 'official' welcome and I'll add that I have no intention of using any moderator powers to my advantage, I'm a good boy. I just found it highly ironic that after joining a thread asking atheists a question he made his own thread asking christians a question, then became huffy when the first post said 'tool'.

Since it was asked the following is a rant about how my religious views changed, I wont be offended if you don't bother reading it. I spent 8 years at a high standards christian school. None of the teachers were heavily religious (and there was never a whisper of Intelligent Design) however we had church (in a cathedral ) every week. Our priest, who held chapel every week, was also the religious teacher at our school. I wasn't very god orientated however I had great respect for the christian beliefs and morals because of the way he preached. It was never direct, he never tried to turn people, he never said believe in god or go to hell and most importantly he didn't make up an answer to everything. He openly admitted the bible was a moral code and it wasn't to be taken 100% literally (as many morons choose to do). He was open minded to all suggestions and knew as much about other religions as he did his own, he was also an extremely merited philosopher. Until I left school he was (in my mind) an idol of christianty, he's also since been made a Canon of the church.

Since I left school his influence over my picture of christianity has softened and it's people such as Kingray100 who have completely destroyed my respect for the religion. There are preachers who think they're the gift of god who make claims that even my old priest would admit were ridiculous. How can one religion have two people in the same area preaching such different things? No racism intended, but I feel the evils of christianity are much more prevalent in America than here in Australia, also (as far as I know) there hasn't been any nonsense about trying to teach intelligent design here.

Being civil with someone who sprouts crap such as "clinicly dead is the same thing as being dead,its just that theres a chance of survival with fast manuevers with medical treatments." is the reason I avoid taking a stance on something as controversial as religion. Someone here might have seen another moderator abused by a member at one point for having an opinion O.o Then again if DarkRoseofHell speaks truth I have no worries

I think a funny point with atheism is it sounds a little like anarchism. Maybe it's just me but when I was a lot younger (maybe 10) I use to think the lawless anarchists were similar to the godless atheists, that of course was before I had an understanding of what each truly was. I did have a bible in my room for a long time but it's since moved to somewhere else in the house (still have no idea who moved it where).

What interests me more is how many preaching religious people have actually read it themselves....

I considered joining this group a while ago but decided not to in case someone thought a blasphemous moderator was a terrible terrible thing, I've since realised I don't really care. Seeing as alexjohnc3 invited me I'll join up.

To SunSpots, the fact you cut your hand while trying to stab the bible is obvious proof god exists and was punishing you for your attempted sin. However as scientifically minded people it is our duty to test this theory by again stabbing numerous bibles in multiple controlled environments with various sharp objects. If divine retribution occurs more than the laws of physics, god must exist!

Get out of your siblings room! You have your own

Soooooo, election coming up........Being 18 I probably should know something about it right? (well I don't!) I think those fellas that are in there now are doing a fine job so we might as well leave them there, as far as I can tell other people would only do a worse job, then again I'm uninformed. The majority of people voting aren't properly informed on what each side is all about and will never bother to become informed. It doesn't bother me who wins and I figure being like the majority (and not REALLY caring) is easier. Call me lazy but politics don't really interest me at the moment.

This group is basically decommissioned (it's actually amazing I'm even here posting) however you have been working hard it seems. GO GO!

I have joked about it being a form of botchiis successor in that it will almost appear to be a bot account on the surface. It seems most people understand the accounts purpose already.....which failed to happen on botchii after 2 years.

The nekolove accounts........oh how I do hope your being sarcastic when you suggest it may be a bug. *Pulls out a giant ban hammer*

THREE CHEERS FOR KUROIMISA for heading the newest revolution to hit the planet!